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Mr. Gavin Orr's letter (March 77) has brought an approving response from several readers but a general suggestion that times change and that however good the old methods of training were, we cannot put the clock back. Mr. F. G. Alchin, for instance, says : Mr. Gavin Orr's recently published account of pre-war structural steelwork training I found very nostalgic as it coincides with my having enjoyed a similar experience. As this commenced some 50 years ago there cannot be many of us left, at least actively employed, but one can only concur with every comment he makes. Verulam